Bridging Worlds with Paws: The Journey of a Dog Whisperer from London to Zambia

Join us on a captivating journey with John Garstang, a human-dog relationship coach whose life is a testament to the transformative power of the bond between humans and their canine friends. From the bustling streets of London to the sun-drenched Greek island of Rhodes, John's story unfolds, revealing his remarkable transition from daycare manager to a beacon of hope for shelter dogs in Zambia. As we navigate through his adventures, we uncover the essence of responsible pet ownership, the cultural nuances of dog-human interactions, and the profound impact of early education in shaping the way we live with our furry companions.
As John takes us through the changing landscapes of Zambia, we're introduced to the heartwarming success stories that emerge from a deeper understanding of canine care and community engagement. His efforts in pairing dogs, establishing routines, and the simple yet significant act of introducing collars and leashes paint a larger picture of a society learning to cherish the joys of responsible adoption. John's dedication to the cause and the celebration of the human element in animal welfare shine through, stirring a dialogue on the ripple effects of positive human-animal relationships across cultural divides.
Wrapping up our exploration, we delve into the intricacies of dog training and the pivotal role of education and empathy in nurturing human-canine relationships. John's anticipation for his upcoming educational app underscores his commitment to spreading knowledge and fostering connections. 
Jon Garstang is a human/dog relationship coach, educational writer, shelter advocate and musician. Having run a dog care service in London for ten years Jon was bitten by the shelter bug whilst helping to run a shelter in Zambia back in 2011. Soon after Jon relocated to Greece where he rehabilitates shelter dogs and has created an education program endorsed by the Greek ministry. Last year Jon won a national award for services to education from the Greek animal welfare society. Jon has also created a free mobile app for anyone who is getting or has a dog. To learn more about Jon visit his Website, follow on Facebook and

Chapters

• 0:00 Pet Stories Around the World
• 9:24 Changing Perspectives
• 13:49 Dog Training and Building Relationships
• 24:48 Understanding Dog Vetting and Training

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello, my friends and fellow animal lovers, welcome to the Story of my Pet podcast. I am Julie Marty Pearson, your host, proud fur mom, pet lover and all-around animal advocate. I'm so happy to have you here to listen to the incredible pet stories that I have collected from around the world. I hope you enjoy this episode and I can't wait to share this pet story with you. Hello, my friends and fellow animal lovers, welcome to another episode of the Story of my Pet podcast. I am your host, as always, julie Marty Pearson, and I'm excited to bring you yet another new guest to the podcast, some great new stories that we will be sharing today. I want to welcome John Garcing to the podcast. Hello and welcome.

Speaker 2: 0:48

Hi Julie, Lovely to be here. Thank you so much for asking me on.

Speaker 1: 0:51

Yes, I appreciate you being here, and can you tell all the listeners where you are coming from?

Speaker 2: 0:56

Yeah, I'm on the Greek island of. Rhodes in the Mediterranean Aegean area. This is where I live and this is where I've lived for the past seven years I. I can't imagine how amazingly beautiful that place is, so I will transport myself in my mind I always say if you ever make it out of this neck of the woods, just drop me a line and we'll sort you out I definitely will.

Speaker 1: 1:17

Okay, so I'm gonna tell listeners a little bit about you. John is a human dog relationship coach, educational writer, shelter, shelter advocate and musician. He had a dog daycare service in London for 10 years and he got bitten by the shelter bug I know that bug well Whilst helping to run a shelter in Zambia back in 2011. Soon after he relocated to Greece, as he just said, where he rehabilitates shelter dogs and has created an education program endorsed by the Greek Ministry of Education. That's amazing Teaching young children the importance of looking after dogs and the lessons we learn from our relationship to them so important. We've got to educate the kids, because they are the ones that are going to continue to save the animals.

Speaker 2: 1:59

Exactly, and when you work in many different countries, you have to be mindful of cultural aspects. You have to be mindful of the fact that not all nations have had onion animals for as long as we have in the UK and in America, and you just have to be mindful of that. And you don't want to go out and preach, but you want to look at people's natural affinity to working with dogs and help them with that and be there to answer questions if people need it.

Speaker 1: 2:23

That's so important and I've even seen that here. I'm in California and locally there's areas where they're canvassing educating people about why spay and neuter is important, what the benefits are, because sometimes people just don't understand that little things like that are actually helping your pets live longer and be healthier. So I can imagine for you, having worked in several different countries, you're running into cultural differences that are much broader than that. Before we get into that, have you always been an animal lover? Did you have pets growing up as a child?

Speaker 2: 2:50

Yeah, I've had animals since I was very young and I also was lucky enough to work in riding stables in the Alps when I was growing up as a teenager, so I spent a lot of time with horses as well. I totally fell in love with them. So any noble and stunning and yeah, I grew up in a kind of old school environment where the dogs were generally outside dogs. They got the same amount of affection and love as any, as any person could give a dog, and it was a kind of an effort. There was an effortlessness about it was there was no technical kind of dog training stuff. It was all just very clear about what we need. These are boundaries, need clarity, lots of the love and affection, constant reinforcement, and so there was no need for trying to get down and technical with all the aspects of that dog training. One of the things I hung back to is that I love that kind of natural symbiosis between humans and companion animals. I'm a big advocate for that and I really want things to get back to basics.

Speaker 1: 3:44

I think that's so important because everybody has their own perspective of what that looks like, but a lot of people need the basics, and the basics help the dog to be successful in whatever environment they're living in, whatever family or home or whatever it has to be. So you worked, you had a dog daycare service in London. How did that come about for you to start that?

Speaker 2: 4:04

Well, I started working with dogs in 2005 in Bristol, a town, a city in southwestern England, and initially it was just a question. I was playing in a band. Before that, my life was. I went from playing in like a rock band training. I was training as an actor in London. First I went to playing in a band and all of a sudden my life completely changed and I needed some money and I thought what can I do?

Speaker 2: 4:32

I bumped into this guy in the street one day and we just went chatting because he had a load of dogs and he could see that I had a natural affinity to them and I was just super passionate about me and your nice dogs and he just offered me a job on the spot. Would you like to come and work with me and I can teach you everything I know and I can teach you everything I know. And I was like, yeah, I was down for it because I'd just moved to a new city and I'd lost the job I'd got because the company folded. So I was in a brand new city with a new flat and no job. So I thought, yeah, let's give it a bash.

Speaker 2: 4:56

And what I found early on is I found it really easy to build relationships with the guardians, the families of these dogs, because when I met them, at the end of every day I would always tell them exactly what I'd seen, what I'd observed, what I'd noticed. And the more I got to know these people socially sometimes or whatever I would see the parallels and aspects of their characters and how that manifested itself in the dog's behavior. And having worked as an actor and studied body language and things like that, I just thought this is so fascinating and it's really given me a handle into the way that I observe the animal and I want to know more about that. So I started to do more about psychology.

Speaker 2: 5:32

I'm from a very affable Irish ground, very friendly, and I just thought all of these aspects are perfect. I'm outdoors, I'm with these wonderful animals, I meet really nice people that are heavily invested in their dog and these wonderful animals and really nice people that are heavily invested in their dog, and that's what really turned me on to doing it. So when I moved to London there was a huge boom of people taking dogs out, but I'd noticed it become a real money-making thing and there was very little investment from the people towards the owners or the families in this occasion, and I thought that's a huge part of the equation missing. And that's what led me down that route and got really passionate about the not the dog about the relationship part and how they work together, the whole idea of symbiosis no, that's so important.

Speaker 1: 6:12

My education's in psychology, so I totally get all the things you just said, and when I volunteered and worked for a while in a shelter, I saw it too. I think humans like to look at an animal reacting a certain way and assume that's how they are all the time. They don't realize that their environment, just like people, impacts how they're behaving and reacting and all of that. And when a dog's in a shelter, for example, they're going to be acting a certain way because of it, because of the noise and the uncertainty, but it's the same. When they're put into a home, how does the home set up? What's the environment, what's the family, what are the, the dynamics? All of that impacts the dog's behavior and it sounds like that's really what you honed in on and saw the importance of working with all entire family to make a dog fit in the way they need to yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 6:54

I 100 with that. And it's funny because over in greece the last four or five of my clients are. They're either psychoanalysts or psychologists, just quite pure coincidence. Sometimes I'm talking to them and I'm not saying don't know the stuff I'm telling you, because that's surely exactly what you teach, and they're like yeah, we do know that, but we just want to hear it from you because you're in a different area and I'm like you don't need me to tell you any of this stuff?

Speaker 2: 7:12

It's really basically a lot of it. So that's why I'm very reticent and I don't was no remit for the job I was going to do A friend of mine who runs Enniford Ortonage. She's an absolute legend. She's called Rachel Merton. She runs Enniford Ortonage in National Park in Zambia and she just called me and said they need your help. John, no one's going to come to Southern Africa and help these guys. But I want to ask you to a challenge.

Speaker 2: 7:44

When I went over, I didn't know anyone there. I didn't know anything about the culture. I was pretty green. I'd only been working with dogs professionally for six years and no job or course could have prepared me for that work. Because I was dealing with the culture, I was dealing with the sociology, I was dealing with the police force, I was dealing with the individual cultural problems as well, as the dogs were just a tiny part of the equation. That's what led me down that route, because it's the whole of the thing that encapsulates the magic of the fact that we have a relationship with another species, and I think that, as long as you always bear that in mind, it means it's always a source of magic, it's always a source of wonder, and that's why I continue to love doing this job.

Speaker 1: 8:21

Yeah, I think it's so important because I think sometimes we forget they're animals, they're sentient beings, they're impacted by their experience and changes and all of those things that sometimes, oh, it's a dog, it's just going to do dog things. Well, maybe it doesn't know what dog things are, and especially if they're coming off the street or they're in a shelter, we don't know always what their history is. So in Zambia, were you dealing specifically with shelter dogs? What was the situation there?

Speaker 2: 8:45

Well, it was a completely self-funded trip. I did do a little bit of private training on the side for people. I also put on concerts music concerts to raise money, but the job really was. I had to first of all identify there was a huge amount of chaos there. There's generally a lot of chaos in shelters and, as you said directly earlier, behavior is contextual. By changing the context, by making it more stable, giving them some structure, I knew I could create a much calmer environment. People that are expecting people to come off the street, walk in, pick a dog and leave, and that just wasn't happening, because as soon as you walked in there, it was just pandemonium and it was scary.

Speaker 2: 9:24

A lot of the Zambian culture is a beautiful culture. It's one of those countries in Africa where they don't have the tribal infighting. It's a very peaceful and safe country. A lot of the emerging classes were starting to really want to have dogs, but there was no situation in place that would inspire them to do this. What I had to do is make it a place where people would walk in and it would be an interesting place where they could make a decision about the dogs they wanted. But the first thing I had to do was I had to split some of the groups up.

Speaker 2: 9:53

So dogs, correct dogs with the right dogs to bring the best out of each other. Because who's better to teach a dog than another dog? I think I'm constantly. I always have plenty of dogs at my disposal because they all teach different things and you can use that to advantage so beautifully if you know how to do that. So I took certain dogs with other ones and then I made some. We made some individual kennels, pairs of dogs to go in. And then we changed the feeding habits. We made the feeding very structured. I made the handlers learn to spend a few minutes every day just working with hand feeding and by inhibition and things like that. Then we started working on the mechanical side, putting collars on. Some of these dogs have never had a collar on in their life and next leave without a collar on and be perfect on a leash.

Speaker 1: 10:34

I have a specific experience of taking an older puppy out of a kennel at a shelter and putting a leash on it, and he's what's happening.

Speaker 2: 10:40

What's happening? What are you doing?

Speaker 1: 10:41

Because they've never had a weapon before, so all those things are still important for them to get used to. It sounds like in Zambia there were really things that maybe people would think were basic. But even in any shelter environment they don't realize there are things the dog has to get used to, otherwise they're not being set up to be a success in whatever family they're going into. So that sounds like that's a lot of the work you were really trying to do ahead of time for the animals in the shelters.

Speaker 2: 11:05

Yeah, you've got to be invested in the whole lot. As we all know and I'll probably get slapped for saying this A lot of people that work in animal and dog welfare are anti-human. They're like oh look, humans are terrible and I'm so glad I never get to spend any time with people and I'm like all right, get with me. Of course I understand what you're saying, but if you're working in a companion animal world, there's two parts of the equation there. It's an important part.

Speaker 2: 11:30

You're missing out on the percent equation, which is a huge thing. You need to be able to say you're going to take this dog, let's talk. Let me tell you everything I know. Let's have a rapport, even if we're not going to go out from behind or whatever For the purposes of this environment. Let's talk and let's get to know each other and let's chew the fat and find out what your expectations are, and then I can help you to prepare. If you're jaded and you're anti-you, then you're missing a big part of the equation. You shouldn't be the first point of contact in a shelter because you can have this morbid idea of well, maybe the dog should stay in the shelter, it can spend a bit with that person. I just don't find that helpful.

Speaker 1: 12:09

Having been in the environment, it's really easy to get jaded about people. Where I live, we have a lot of dogs that get dumped on the street or left out in the middle of an acre of trees, so it's easy to get jaded. But you're so right when we want a dog to be successful and someone's telling you what they need in a dog that helps, you know this isn't going to be the right dog for them, but maybe this one over here would be, and I can help you figure that out. So that relationship is really important.

Speaker 2: 12:33

Yeah, exactly Of course. We're here to serve a purpose.

Speaker 2: 12:36

And if you're going to get into this world, you need to realize you're going to see some gnarly stuff. You're going to see the worst of humanity and you're going to see the best of humanity. And that's just the reality. And if you don't like it, then don't do something else, because we need to be working together and pulling our resources. And some people aren't great at that side of it and that's fine. They can do other things. We just need to be working for the animal always.

Speaker 1: 12:56

Absolutely so. Your work in Zambia what were some of your big takeaways or maybe your success stories there that really inspired you?

Speaker 2: 13:06

Well, I love the kind of social aspect and I love the fact that you can surprise a lot of people. So we did some big fairs, outdoor fairs and music and food and dancing and stuff, and I would bring some dogs from the shelter to these fairs and traditionally, a lot of the people from Zambia they would look at a lot of the kind of oppressive white people as having dogs as a god or an aggressive thing. And luckily, when I was over there, that culture was shifting. People were becoming a lot more inclusive and you'd find that a lot of the Zambians were really interested to form a relationship with dogs for the first time and that was just gorgeous, just being in a place and watching people's fear dissipate in front of your eyes as you.

Speaker 2: 13:49

Because when you're doing something like that and I teach in schools a lot you have to get the person to focus on, and I always say this when people are walking and they're a bit if they're worried about someone, I'm like don't think, okay, that's a certain breed and it's coming this way. Look at the relationship between that dog and the person that has it. How are they interacting together? Do they look like a unit? Are they looking at each other? Are they checking with each other? Is affection there?

Speaker 2: 14:11

So if the person if I've got three, four dogs on a leash in a fair in zambia and I'm like super chilled and friendly and hey there, do you want to come and say hi? You don't have to look at my little tails wagging come and say hi. And if you can bowl them over with that kind of that kind of enthusiasm and you're just clearly in control, then you can really you can make a big impact on the way people see things. And that was a huge thing for me. It was like watching the culture generally shift almost in front of my eyes. And it's been a very similar experience in Greece as well, because in the seven years I've been here, the change in attitude has been unbelievable and that's the big thing to me. It's the cultural, sociological element of it as well as the microcosmic, just the dog thing.

Speaker 1: 14:53

Yeah, I think that was the kicker for me and obviously just being in a beautiful country and getting to hang around with dogs all day, no, that sounds like such a powerful experience because for you to get to see firsthand that shift in people realizing these dogs are not just scary security beings, that they're actually soulful animals that want to be a part of your life and can connect with you in a way that a lot of people maybe have never experienced before, so that's really powerful yeah, absolutely so.

Speaker 2: 15:16

Yeah, that's one thing you do recognize and you'll know this from your job that as much as we're different, we're the same and all people really need is just a really gentle helping hand, and you're generally telling people things that they already know you just.

Speaker 1: 15:28

You just need a reminder or to have someone else say it.

Speaker 2: 15:31

They often need a reframe sometimes, and the use of metaphor is very important in my work because it's about getting that framing in and the metaphors you use are different depending on the person you're speaking to. Right, it's always useful to have I've dealt with hundreds of people from so many different countries now. It's a lot of fun. It's a little game for me to try and work on little things that make the light bulb come on and I can almost see it happen and that's just a huge thing to me because I know that once they know certain things, they can't unknow them and you've changed everything just with getting the right, just saying the right thing at the right time. So that's a really fun game yeah, that's.

Speaker 1: 16:04

It sounds like, yeah, there's a lot of moving parts, but it's really. It really something you really enjoy the process of getting all the pieces in the right place.

Speaker 2: 16:12

Yeah, because no two jobs are the same.

Speaker 1: 16:13

Absolutely Because, yeah, because no, two dogs are the same right.

Speaker 2: 16:16

No, exactly. They're as idiosyncratic as we are. We compartmentalize things in life to help make sense of the word, to be honest, but in reality there's a lot going on. Bottom line is, it's all about getting the foundations correct, and, and and the kind of clarity that we have in our own mind is key to everything, because without clarity, we cannot expect anything that's connected to us, whether it be a person or a kid or a dog, to have a flu to what we want dogs pick up on our anxiety and fear and all those things really fast.

Speaker 1: 16:46

Sometimes they pick up on it before we even realize we're having that feeling. So that can really impact your relationship with an animal if you don't realize that. You have to be aware of how you're feeling and how you're putting that off on the animal and your relationship. A quick break from this episode to tell you about a company I'm partnering with to help support the podcast. Nuvita is a woman-founded, woman-owned health and wellness company committed to clean, simple and organic wellness products. Their CBD products are derived from 100% USA-grown hemp and all products undergo rigorous testing throughout the entire process to ensure they are selling only the quality goods for you. If they won't take it, they won't sell it. They proudly run a USDA-certified organic facility. All products are certified residual-free, organic and gluten-free, while most of their products are also vegan. Nuvita has a variety of CBD products, from tinctures to soft gels to gummies to rollers there's something that can work for everyone.

Speaker 1: 17:39

I personally have used NuVita products for several years and recently started testing some of their new detox products and oh my gosh, let me tell you, the results have been amazing. One of the reasons I love NuVita the most is because they have a special pet formula CBD just for our fur babies. I have used their pet formula CBD with my own cats and they are amazing. They can help your pets with anxiety, pain, inflammation and recovering from injury. I will never promote a product I haven't used myself or with my pets, and this one I have used for both and highly recommend it. You can go to the link in this episode to shop Nubida now and use my code JULIE10 for 10% off of your order. No minimum purchase required and every single time you shop Nubida you can use my code for 10% off. Thanks for listening. Now back to this episode.

Speaker 2: 18:30

So I've been working for the last year on a course and an app because I kept getting asked by organizations and individuals whether I crystallize some of this stuff. So I decided to make. I'm in the process of making that. In the next maybe three or four weeks it should come out in an app, an application. It's a free. It's a free resource.

Speaker 2: 18:46

I want to give it to anyone who's interested in my teaching because it's just going to be like seven videos. It's more kind of about philosophy than anything else. There's a little bit of mechanics in there and stuff like that, but it's just basically saying look, just have this and this is my hippy-dippy style of human-dog relationships and it's worked all over the world and just have it, take it, watch the videos, and if it works, then I'm ecstatic. And how long does it take me to make a few videos? No time. And so I just thought that could be a gift, and when it comes out, I just want all the people that can't afford a dog trainer there's no one that lives near them. There's such a plethora of different information online. If you go on YouTube, you're going to get 10 different people telling you 10 different things. But it's really important to protect the dog, then people who are advocating fear and pain and stuff should be shown to be doing that, and it should be crystal clear.

Speaker 2: 19:35

I just feel like there are fundamental truths that are not just necessarily about dogs. They're about relationships in general. You might talk to your best friend who might be in their 40s and they've fallen out with their husband and you might say have you tried talking to him? Do you have to tell that to an adult about someone that's been in?

Speaker 2: 19:50

a relationship for 20 years Did you try talking to them about the thing and they're like oh, I didn't think of that, it's boneless. I want to create a resource for people, so I got involved with an organization called Inter Rescue, inter Dogs it's a famous dog training Inter Dogs, and I'm part of the Inter Rescue group as a kind of ambassador, because my approach in my work is it's not something you can study, because it's all about sociology, it's anthology and it's all about the relationship rather than the dog. You read hundreds of books, but if you want to do the kind of stuff that I do, you can't learn it really. You have to do it and see what fits for you.

Speaker 1: 20:26

I think that's important. I think people think they can read a book. I think that's important. I think people think they can read a book or maybe, and they're like, okay, I get it. No, you've got to interact with the animal to learn it Because, like we've said, every animal is different. Every approach may be different, where they've come from, or you don't know where they've come from, and you've got to feel that and you become more comfortable once you have that actual physical interaction.

Speaker 2: 20:45

Yeah, that's completely true, and we have to remember about the slightly more cerebral, abstract. Yeah, that's completely true, and we have to remember about the slightly more cerebral, abstract things when it comes to working with dogs, and that's what I'm really interested in. It's a bit like if you do something all the time, your instinct becomes more refined. I always think of it a bit like a muscle. If you don't use it, then it will atrophy and then you won't know how to act in a certain area. When you're working with dogs in a pack, or if you're out and you're doing training you need. If you get a tickle at the stomach that says something's not right, you better listen to that and you better be ready to stop it before it happens. Generally with dogs, you stop things before they happen you anticipate well you read the signals because they're whispering to us.

Speaker 2: 21:20

They're whispering to us constantly and we need to learn how to listen to the whisper so we don't have to listen to them when they how or I'm really uncomfortable. Now it's really important to do that, and the only way you can do that is just like putting in those thousands of hours and enjoying it, and I was doing about 26 hours a week in London with maybe 80 or 90 different dogs every week, and it was the best way to understand about how dogs work en masse. You need to have a. I've got enough dogs that I can use and I can pull on certain dogs to play a role for me and I love it.

Speaker 2: 21:53

I'll call up the family and I'm like, hey, can I borrow your dog tomorrow? And they're like what? I'm like, yeah, I want to use him to rehabilitate this dog from the cause he's. I've got this aggressive male and then I've got a big, funky, flopped male. He's never going to fight back and and the dog? It can, really it can come on leaps and bounds. There's so much good stuff you can do if you have access to simple dogs.

Speaker 1: 22:19

Yeah, I think that's so important for animals because, especially if they're very anxious or unsure, they just need reassurance and they can't always get it from us. It's a vibe they get from the other dog that really helps them stay calm and feel safe.

Speaker 2: 22:33

Yeah, so that's. I've got a property here in the mountains in Greece. I take a lot, I do a lot of rehab work. I've maybe done, I've maybe rehabilitated about 30 dogs. I'll have them come over and they normally come into my environment. I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to let the environment and the dogs I already have do the work. Now All I'm going to do is facilitate it and give you lots of cuddles, but most of the work's going to be done by the other dogs and boundary setting and just making them aware, learning manners, and when these dogs end up in Finland or Germany or Britain or wherever I've sent dogs all over the place it's just wonderful to hear that they're assimilated already and they're good to go. As you say in America, they're good to go. They just land in the country and they're running. It's a great feeling.

Speaker 1: 23:15

Yeah, and it's so important I hear it a lot. We have to set them up for success, then. Otherwise, why are you putting the money and time into getting a pet if you're not wanting them prepared for the best whenever they need? You want them to be in the best setup as possible and have an amazing dog in your family.

Speaker 2: 23:31

I like. Your choice of language is fine for me because the course that I've been working on for every year probably I don't know how many dog actors in it, maybe 40 dogs I'm using the same language. The first section of the course is set yourself up for success. Create the environments that you don't. You're not about peddling. You're more like. If you're going to be in this situation, you want a dog to come to your family. You need to really put the time and effort in. I'm not talking about breaking your back or breaking your bank account, right, it's about getting your head and sitting down with your family.

Speaker 2: 24:00

What do we expect out of this relationship? Yes, and getting us up excited about it, but also making sure that when the dog comes along, it's it can seamlessly fit into what you're doing and you can enjoy the process, because that is just right yeah, preparation is so important because ultimately, that's what you want you want a happy dog and you want to be happy and you want just to have a great experience with that new family member.

Speaker 1: 24:19

So you mentioned something when we first started talking about what you were rehabbing a working dog. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because where I live in California, unfortunately we have a lot of working dogs. We have a lot of German Shepherds and Huskies in our shelters and, as you can imagine, they're not getting exercise and they go into a home and they're not prepared for the kind of what they need to be successful.

Speaker 2: 24:43

So can you talk a little bit about that? I think that's important. Yeah, I think when it comes to things like that, a lot of shelters are just so anxious to get the dogs out there that they don't do the vetting process properly. And I have a very simple idea with vetting. I just say think about the questions the person who's taking the dog are asking, because people think, oh, I've built another kid, so I know what I'm doing. That's just nonsense. It's like saying I'll be married five times. Does that mean you're good at marriage? This doesn't work.

Speaker 1: 24:59

You want that kind of humility on the person and that's going to tell you a big story, and I also think what I found so much that's so frustrating is people look at a dog, say, oh, that's a, this breed, they're going to be like this. Well, it doesn't really work that way. Every dog is different and I've learned so much in shelters. You cannot decide what a breed is by looking at them, because you're usually going to be wrong. So the stereotypes need to be thrown out the window and you need to deal with that dog and their personality and their temperament and move forward from there yeah, you've got to be, you've got to be open and you've got to be ready for sure and realize that.

Speaker 2: 25:31

Coming back to the point from earlier we were making about the context being key, you want to make the context and the environment indicative to a happy, gentle, secure and feeling dog, because that's that, end of the day, is our job. Our job is to make them feel secure and safe before we do anything else.

Speaker 1: 25:45

That is literally the foundation stone in my philosophy it's so important because I think sometimes people think that means physical activity and, yes, dogs need that. But what you're saying? They also need their brain exercise, enrichment activity, a puzzle to get to some treats, or working with them with different cues. It doesn't even have to be verbal. It's important because, just like us, if we don't read or listen to music, our brain's not going to work. We have to exercise our own brains and dogs are the same way.

Speaker 2: 26:09

Yeah, absolutely, and I think the point is it's a bit like a pressing instrument. You give people unrealistic targets. They're not going to do anything. What I do is I give them five minute exercises and I'm like, but you're going to do the five minute exercises twice a day and what you find is the exercises are actually conditioning the person as much as a dog, because what you're doing is you're teaching the person to notice things they wouldn't otherwise notice. You do this kind of stuff as much. You see constantly things that need to be reinforced because you want the dog to know that. You want the frequency of that behavior to increase. Therefore, you're constantly seeing things and dogs. They go. They love it. If a dog in the street walks past me and glances up at me in a kind of fight or jump way of going, I know you're sorry.

Speaker 2: 26:52

And when it does happen. It's crazy how much it happens. I'll do the same to them. I'll be like, yes, and if you're in a cafe or something and the dog will really notice, I teach people to do crazy stuff. Like, if you've got a puppy, just play games with it, do stuff and watch how it, because people don't think that's my dog, I'm going to feed it, I'm going to walk it, you can. If you want to really create chemistry, chemistry, yes, you can do almost like harry potter's kind of stuff with your dog. A connection style you need eye contact is so important it's massively.

Speaker 2: 27:23

I was. I was made. The dogs are like men. I'm like dogs are like men. If they're looking, they're probably thinking about you. If they're not looking at you, probably not thinking about you they're thinking about whatever they're hearing in the

Speaker 1: 27:32

background exactly absolutely well. It sounds like what you're creating for your app is going to be great, and so hopefully, by the time this episode comes out, I can share that with everyone so they can utilize all of your years of experience to help them with their own dogs. I think that's an amazing tool to have because, like you said, not everybody can afford training or has access, and so to have a really easy, step-by-step, quick thing that they can do and start doing every day with their own dogs is really valuable, so it sounds like that'll be a really great tool for people to have yeah, and I've been in so many situations where people are embarrassed to ask questions and stuff and not realizing that I love answering these questions because I love my work and that's what.

Speaker 2: 28:09

That's what led me to that, to the education program in which the kids and the generation younger, the, the people in their twenties, getting dogs. They could see that all this chaining up of animals and leaving them on the balcony has never taken them out was just unacceptable and it was creating these really messed up animals. And when I came to the island and I started working with a few dogs, people thought it was an alien or something, because this guy had this control over these dogs. And I'm like do you know what it's? Because I'm kind to them, I'm clear with them and I tell them unequivocally what I want from them and then I show them that I love what they do. It's nothing more complicated than that and I was getting a bit of traction with that. And then I realized that the only way I was going to make any headway here was by getting into the school. So I wrote a book and I was quite a bit of a wimp.

Speaker 2: 28:59

I was quite unfortunate for it to get into the right hands and eventually ended up in the national curriculum. It was about all the soft skills we learn when we have a dog Just being empathetic, being consistent, being kind, noticing how someone else is stealing, and it's been a real success. And I'm actually lecturing at the university next with my dog for a load of students who want to promote the project. It's all about peace and love, because it's not. It doesn't have to be unbelievably complicated and technical. It's really basic stuff and it should be, should come from a cerebral place, but it should also come from the heart and the gut and all those things as well, because that's the whole point and there's no point in doing all this stuff and have all those magical moments.

Speaker 1: 29:39

Absolutely and I think so important what you said about teaching the kids, because they learn now what responsible pet ownership is, what building a connection with your pet and understanding them and having those important relationships with them. They learn it now. They're going to help us in the future and hopefully we won't have as many dogs in shelters. And they're going to help us in the future and hopefully we won't have as many dogs in shelters and they're going to be taking care of them and really committed to them and having them in their family. So it's so important for the kids to be educated and it sounds like you're doing just that and really helping to put out your message as much as possible.

Speaker 2: 30:08

I'm giving it a bash, I'm doing my best. I'm trying to because of the situation and the experience of working in those two places. My real ambition, my grand ambition, is to try and create an international template of information resources that you can go to a government department, you can give a video library to all the shelters, I can give my education program to any country with the slideshows and the videos and the theatre role plays, and then you create you dialogue between shelters and education institutions. They become more. I feel like that's the tempo. I'm quite close to finishing.

Speaker 1: 30:44

I just want to, not just ambition. No, that's great, so important, so important. Obviously, the important with every dog is important, but being able to spread it on a mass like that that people can pick up and initiate in their area, in their shelters, and all of that is so important. Sounds like you're doing amazing work and I appreciate your time and thank you so much for being here. I know the listeners are going to get a lot out of this conversation, so I just want to thank you for coming on and telling us your story and really sharing a lot of great tips and tricks, but also just understanding the importance of building that relationship with our pets.

Speaker 2: 31:14

No worries, it's a pleasure, julia. It's a pleasure, julia. I love what you do as well. You're spreading these words out and getting people interested in the topic and creating dialogue. That's what we need. We need people to be talking and sharing the passion that we have, and hopefully it'll make the world a better place.

Speaker 1: 31:27

Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you, my friend, for being here and listening to this episode of the Story of my Pet podcast. I hope you were inspired and touched by this amazing pet story and I hope you come back to listen to more episodes soon. Make sure you don't miss any new episodes by clicking subscribe wherever you are listening to this podcast right now. Want to help the podcast grow? Then hit rating and review wherever you are listening to this podcast right now. Want to help the podcast grow? Then hit rating and review wherever you are listening to this podcast. Every review helps get the podcast in front of more people and heard by more listeners, so that the podcast can inspire more people to rescue, foster and adopt animals in each day. Thank you so much for being here and much love to you and your pets.